Legislature(2007 - 2008)SENATE FINANCE 532

03/20/2007 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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09:02:02 AM Start
09:02:31 AM SB123
10:01:25 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SB 123 PUBLIC EMP./TEACHERS/JUDGES EMP. BENEFITS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                            MINUTES                                                                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                         March 20, 2007                                                                                       
                           9:02 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bert  Stedman  convened the  meeting  at  approximately                                                               
9:02:02 AM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Joe Thomas                                                                                                              
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also  Attending: ANNETTE  KREITZER,  Commissioner, Department  of                                                             
Administration;  KATHY  LEA,   Retirement  Manager,  Division  of                                                               
Retirement  & Benefits,  Department  of Administration;  CHARLENE                                                               
MORRISON,  Chief  Financial  Officer, Division  of  Retirement  &                                                               
Benefits, Department of Administration                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via  Teleconference:   There  were  no  teleconference                                                             
participants                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 123-PUBLIC EMP./TEACHERS/JUDGES EMP. BENEFITS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the  Department of  Administration. The                                                               
bill was held in Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 123                                                                                                        
     "An  Act relating  to the  public  employees' and  teachers'                                                               
     defined  benefit retirement  plans; relating  to the  public                                                               
     employees'  and  teachers' defined  contribution  retirement                                                               
     plans; relating to the  judicial retirement system; relating                                                               
     to  the health  reimbursement arrangement  plan for  certain                                                               
     teachers and public employees;  relating to the supplemental                                                               
     employee benefit program; relating  to the public employees'                                                               
     deferred compensation  program; relating to  group insurance                                                               
     for  public   employees  and  retirees;   making  conforming                                                               
     amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was  the first hearing for  this bill in the  Senate Finance                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:02:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  explained that  this legislation  would address                                                               
technical issues and clarifying language  relative to SB 141, the                                                               
Public  Employees  Retirement  System (PERS)  reform  legislation                                                               
which had been enacted into law a few years prior.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:03:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  informed the Committee that  their bill packets                                                               
contained two  pieces of material  provided by the  Department of                                                               
Administration:   a  "Technical   Clarification  Bill   Overview"                                                               
handout and a sectional analysis of  the bill [copies on file]. A                                                               
review of the bill would  be conducted today and public testimony                                                               
would be scheduled for a later date.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:04:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTER  KREITZER,  Commissioner, Department  of  Administration                                                               
informed the  Committee that this legislation  expanded beyond HB
475, a  "clean up" bill to  SB 141 which had  been considered but                                                               
not enacted the  previous year, in that it  also addressed issues                                                               
pertaining  to  the  Federal  Pension   Protection  Act  and  the                                                               
Internal Revenue  Code [IRC],  which had  been identified  by the                                                               
Department's  tax  counsel.  In   order  to  capture  Legislative                                                               
intent,   this  bill   also   includes  "technical   corrections…                                                               
clarifying death  and disability benefits for  peace officers and                                                               
firefighters and other members" under the DCR Plan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:05:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHY  LEA,   Retirement  Manager,   Division  of   Retirement  &                                                               
Benefits, Department of Administration  addressed the material in                                                               
the aforementioned  handout titled "Technical  Clarification Bill                                                               
Overview" as follows.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:06:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Extensive Review                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     · Department of Law                                                                                                        
     · Independent tax counsel, Ice Miller LLP                                                                                  
     · Division of Retirement and Benefits                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Good morning.   For the  record my name  is Kathy Lea,  I am                                                               
     the Retirement  Manager for the  Division of  Retirement and                                                               
     Benefits.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Thank you  for the opportunity  to provide this  overview of                                                               
     the technical correction bill. This  overview is intended to                                                               
     cover  the highlights  of  the  bill with  a  more in  depth                                                               
     explanation contained within the sectional analysis.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Senate Bill  123 is being  introduced by Governor  Palin and                                                               
     contains many  of the  provisions in  last sessions'  HB 475                                                               
     with  some additions.   Through  the  adoption of  emergency                                                               
     regulations, the  PERS and TRS [Teachers  Retirement System]                                                               
     defined  contribution  retirement plans  received  favorable                                                               
     plan  determination   letters  from  the   Internal  Revenue                                                               
     Service for  the individual accounts and  occupational death                                                               
     and  disability  benefits.   After  incorporating  the  plan                                                               
     determination  and new  federal requirements  for government                                                               
     pension plans, SB 123 was created.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     This bill has  been extensively reviewed for  legal, tax and                                                               
     administrative  compliance by  the  Department  of Law,  the                                                               
     division's  independent tax  counsel,  Ice  Miller, and  the                                                               
     division of retirement and benefits.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:07:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Reasons for Legislation                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Ensure  Defined   Contribution   Retirement  (DCR)   Plan                                                               
        benefits provided as intended                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Update Defined  Benefit (DB)  plans for  qualification in                                                               
        2008 per the Pension Protection Act of 2006                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     · Administrative Changes                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The purpose  of this legislation  is to ensure  the benefits                                                               
     of the  defined contribution  retirement plans  are provided                                                               
     as intended by the legislature.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     It updates the  provisions of the defined  benefit plans for                                                               
     compliance with the federal Pension  Protection Act of 2006.                                                               
     One  of  the  provisions  of this  Act  requires  previously                                                               
     qualified  government  plans  to apply  for  requalification                                                               
     every five years. The division  will submit applications for                                                               
     requalification of the defined benefit plans in 2008.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The bill  also amends  or adds sections  to provide  for the                                                               
     appropriate administration of the plans.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:07:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Defined Contribution Plans                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     DCR Plan Changes                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Occupational   Death   and   Disability   (D&D)   benefit                                                               
        administration and funding                                                                                              
     · Employer participation                                                                                                   
     · Member participation                                                                                                     
     · IRC Contribution limits                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I  have grouped  the  changes into  three  major areas,  the                                                               
     first  of which  are changes  to  the PERS  and TRS  Defined                                                               
     Contribution or DCR Plans.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     In  summary,  the  changes include  the  administration  and                                                               
     funding of  occupational death and disability  benefits; how                                                               
     employers  participate  or  terminate participation  in  the                                                               
     plans; clarification  of who  is a member  of the  DCR plan;                                                               
     and changes  to provide intended benefits  while meeting the                                                               
     Internal Revenue Code contribution limits.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:08:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Occupational Death & Disability                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     · Funding the benefits                                                                                                     
        - TRS Occ D&D fund                                                                                                      
        - PERS Occ D&D clarification for disabled Peace                                                                         
          Officer/Firefighter at normal retirement                                                                              
     · Annual inflation-proofing                                                                                                
        Provides the lesser of:                                                                                                 
        - Disability-75% of increase in CPI or 9%                                                                               
        - Survivor-50% of increase in CPI or 6%                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     SB 141  provided occupational death and  disability benefits                                                               
     for both  the PERS  and TRS DCR  plans. However,  funding of                                                               
     the  TRS  occupational  death and  disability  benefits  was                                                               
     omitted. This bill provides that funding.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Senate  Bill   123  also  clarifies  benefits   provided  to                                                               
     disabled  peace officers  and firefighters  when they  reach                                                               
     normal retirement and                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Adds  a  yearly  cost  of   living  adjustment  to  the  DCR                                                               
     disability and  survivor benefits  similar to Tier  III PERS                                                               
     and  Tier   II  TRS   to  meet  the   legislature's  intent.                                                               
     Disabilitants  would  receive 75%  of  the  increase in  the                                                               
     consumer price index in the  Anchorage area or 9%, whichever                                                               
     is less.  Survivor benefit recipients  would receive  50% of                                                               
     that increase or 6%, whichever is less.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:09:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Occupational Death & Disability                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Periods of  disability and  survivor benefits  constitute                                                               
        membership service for retirement/medical eligibility                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Member or  Survivor not  entitled  to individual  account                                                               
        until retirement                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Provides  medical  cost   share  at   normal  retirement,                                                               
        regardless of age                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     SB  141  is ambiguous  regarding  how  the service  accruals                                                               
     during  a  period  of  disability   or  receipt  of  monthly                                                               
     survivor  benefits are  to be  treated. This  bill clarifies                                                               
     that these periods can be  used to meet service requirements                                                               
     for retirement, medical eligibility  and the medical premium                                                               
     cost share at normal retirement.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Both disability and survivor benefits  cease when the member                                                               
     reaches,   or   would   have   reached   normal   retirement                                                               
     eligibility. The legislature  intended to provide retirement                                                               
     benefits to the  disabled member or to the  survivor at that                                                               
     time.  To  meet  that  intent,  SB  141  required  continued                                                               
     contributions  to be  made to  the individual  account while                                                               
     disability  or  survivor  benefits   were  paid.  This  bill                                                               
     clarifies  that while  the  member  is receiving  disability                                                               
     benefits,  or the  survivor  is  receiving monthly  survivor                                                               
     benefits, they  are not entitled to  withdraw the individual                                                               
     account balance.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Also clarified is that a  disabled member who reaches normal                                                               
     retirement  eligibility by  service  is eligible  to have  a                                                               
     percentage of their medical premiums  paid by the plan based                                                               
     on their  total service under  the plans medical  cost share                                                               
     provisions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Other  technical corrections  include  clarification that  a                                                               
     member will not  be considered disabled if  they can perform                                                               
     the duties of a comparable job for any employer.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:10:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Employer Participation                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Provides participation and termination  authority for new                                                               
        PERS employers.                                                                                                         
     ·  Establishes a  time limit  on conversion  election period                                                               
        for employees                                                                                                           
     ·  Assigns employer  retiree  health  contributions  to  the                                                               
        Alaska Retiree Health Trust                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The  bill  adds provisions  for  new  employers to  join  or                                                               
     existing employers to terminate from the DCR Plan.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     SB  141  provided employers  with  an  opportunity to  allow                                                               
     their  nonvested  employees to  elect  to  convert from  the                                                               
     defined benefit plan  to the DCR plan. This  bill limits the                                                               
     employee  election period  to 12  months from  the date  the                                                               
     administrator   approves   the    employer   resolution   to                                                               
     participation  in the  conversion  program.  Placing a  time                                                               
     limit on the employee  election helps employers estimate and                                                               
    budget for the required matching employer contributions.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     A  new  health  trust  is  established  in  this  bill.  DCR                                                               
     statutes  are   being  amended  to  direct   retiree  health                                                               
     contributions to  the new trust.  The bill  also establishes                                                               
     uniform    contributions   amounts    for   all    employers                                                               
     participating in the Health Reimbursement Arrangement.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:11:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Member Participation                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Adds Governor,  Lieutenant Governor,  and Legislators  as                                                               
        members of the DCR Plan.                                                                                                
     ·  Clarifies that a  DB member hiring  with a new  DCR Plan-                                                               
        only employer participates in the DCR Plan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The  definition of  member  in the  PERS  DCR plan  includes                                                               
     employees but not elected officials.   The bill adds elected                                                               
     state officials as members of the DCR Plan.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     New employers  joining after July  1, 2006 only join  DCR as                                                               
     the DB  [Defined Benefit] plan  is closed. Because  a member                                                               
     of the DCR  plan is defined as an employee  who first enters                                                               
     the  PERS  on or  after  July  1,  2006  or a  nonvested  DB                                                               
     employee  who  has  elected to  convert,  this  called  into                                                               
     question  the status  of a  defined benefit  employee hiring                                                               
     with a  DCR-only employer.  The bill  clarifies that  the DB                                                               
     member participates  in the DCR  plan. Without  this change,                                                               
     the employee could not participate in either plan.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:12:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Member Participation                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Clarifies that a former DB member  who does not reinstate                                                               
        service before July 1, 2010, will be a DCR Plan member if                                                               
        re-employed after that date.                                                                                            
     ·  Specifies how the IRC  § 415(c) limits affect  payment of                                                               
        the employer conversion match for DB to DC conversions.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Senate bill  141 repealed the statutes  allowing member's to                                                               
     reinstate refunded  service in order to  become eligible for                                                               
     retirement benefits.   The status  of former DB  members who                                                               
     do not  reinstate their  refunded service  and contributions                                                               
     to the DB  plan prior to July 1, 2010  was left in question.                                                               
     Senate Bill  123 clarifies that  former members will  be DCR                                                               
     plan  members  upon  reemployment  after the  July  1,  2010                                                               
     deadline.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     SB 141 specifies that employers  of nonvested DB members who                                                               
     elect  to  convert  to  the  DCR  plan  match  the  employee                                                               
     contribution account  100%. However, limitations  are placed                                                               
     on  the   amount  of  pre-tax  contributions   that  can  be                                                               
     deposited into  an individual's account  during a  tax year.                                                               
     That limit is  the amount of total  compensation or $45,000,                                                               
     whichever  is  lower,  for 2007  and  includes  all  pre-tax                                                               
     contributions   from   any   qualified   plan   the   member                                                               
     participates in.  In order to meet  the legislature's intent                                                               
     for 100% employer  match and comply with the  IRC, this bill                                                               
     allows  the remainder  of account  match to  be paid  in the                                                               
     following  tax  year,  subject to  the  415(c)  limits.  The                                                               
     legislation also  clarifies that the service  time converted                                                               
     from the  defined benefit plan  to the  defined contribution                                                               
     plan  can  be  used  towards  vesting  and  eligibility  for                                                               
     retiree medical benefits.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:14:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 11                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     IRC Compliance                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
    · Disabled member 100% vested in employer contributions                                                                     
     ·  Survivor retirement benefit funded  from Occupational D&D                                                               
        fund                                                                                                                    
     · USERRA Compliance                                                                                                        
     · § 415(c)-Contribution Limits                                                                                             
        - contributions on behalf of survivors                                                                                  
        - voluntary employee contributions                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     SB  141  stipulated  that  the  employer  (ER)  continue  to                                                               
     deposit  ER  and  employee (EE)  contributions  to  disabled                                                               
     member's individual  account while  the member  is receiving                                                               
     OCC disability  benefits. This  provision is  permissable by                                                               
     the IRC  only if  the contributions are  nonforfeitable. The                                                               
     bill adds this change to comply with this requirement.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     SB 141  required the  employer to continue  to make  both ER                                                               
     and  EE  contributions  to the  deceased  member  individual                                                               
     account in  order to provide  a DCR benefit to  the survivor                                                               
     at the  time the  monthly survivor  benefit ceases.  The IRC                                                               
     does not allow  for pre-tax contributions to be  made to the                                                               
     deceased member's account past December  31st of the year in                                                               
     which the  member dies. This  bill provides  a tax-qualified                                                               
     mechanism  to   provide  the  benefit  as   the  legislature                                                               
     intended.  Required  contributions  will   be  paid  to  the                                                               
     Occupational Death  & Disability  [ODD] fund.  Benefits paid                                                               
     from  the account  to the  survivor at  the time  the member                                                               
     would have  reached normal retirement  had the  member lived                                                               
     will equal  the amount  the member  and employer  would have                                                               
     contributed plus earnings experienced by the ODD fund.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  also noted that  in order  to comply with  the Uniformed                                                               
Services  Employment   and  Reemployment  Rights   Act  [USERRA],                                                               
provisions were  included in  SB 123  to "ensure[s]  that members                                                               
called  to   active  military  duty   maintain  their   level  of                                                               
retirement benefits as though they had not been called".                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea continued:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
   The sections referring to contributions to a deceased member's                                                               
   individual  account  are  removed  as  well  as  the  sections                                                               
   allowing voluntary employee pre-tax contributions  to the plan                                                               
   based on advice from  the division's tax counsel.  Because the                                                               
   IRC restrictions  on  contributions  of  this  type  make  the                                                               
   election and  the amount  of the  contribution irrevocable  as                                                               
   long as an  individual works for  any employer covered  by the                                                               
   plan, this  provision is  unappealing when  compared with  the                                                               
   flexibility afforded by other retirement savings options, such                                                               
   as employer sponsored deferred compensation programs. For this                                                               
   reason, Senate Bill 123 removes this provision.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:17:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 12                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Defined Benefit Plans                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The second major focus area of the bill are changes to the                                                                 
     defined benefit or DB plans. This includes the Public                                                                      
     Employees, Teachers' and Judicial Retirement Plan.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:17:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Pension Protection Act                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     · Updates rollover provisions and includes a Roth IRA as of                                                                
        January 1, 2008                                                                                                         
     · Allows an alternate payee to rollover contributions                                                                      
     ·  Requires a rollover  of pre/post-tax contributions  to be                                                               
        accounted for separately by receiving plan                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The pension protection act which  became effective in August                                                               
     of 2006, expanded  the types of plans  eligible for rollover                                                               
     into  the defined  benefit plans  for purchasing  service or                                                               
     for rollovers out of the  plan. Any IRA described in chapter                                                               
     26 of  the United States  Code is eligible for  rollover. On                                                               
     January  1, 2008,  this  will include  a  Roth IRA.  Members                                                               
     electing  to  rollover  pre-tax   dollars  to  a  Roth  IRA,                                                               
     however, will be subject to taxation at that time.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     In  the event  of  a divorce  and a  request  to refund  the                                                               
     member's defined  benefit account  balance, a  former spouse                                                               
     (or  alternate  payee)  who has  had  a  qualified  domestic                                                               
     relations order  accepted by the division  that provides the                                                               
     alternate  payee with  a  portion of  the  account, may  now                                                               
     rollover contributions to a qualified plan.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Codifies  requirement  for  a   plan  accepting  a  rollover                                                               
     containing  pre and  post  tax  contributions to  separately                                                               
     account for them.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The  bill  also  clarifies  that   415(c)  limits  apply  to                                                               
     employee post-tax contributions and benefit payments.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:19:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Employer Participation                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Normal cost  and  past  service  rate  applied  to  total                                                               
        payroll dollars                                                                                                         
     ·  Establishes a  deadline for  terminated employers  to pay                                                               
        termination costs                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Changes  to employer  participation in  the DB  plan include                                                               
     redefining normal  cost and  past service  rate so  the rate                                                               
     can be  applied to total  employer payroll, DB and  DC. This                                                               
     does not change the amount the  employer will have to pay to                                                               
     the  defined  benefit plans  for  current  and past  service                                                               
     costs. It simply  reduces the rate and  increases the salary                                                               
     base the rate applies to. It  also provides a salary base to                                                               
     apply the past  service rate to for employers  who no longer                                                               
     have active DB employees.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Requires  that employers  terminating  participation in  the                                                               
     plan must  pay for  the actuarial  study to  determine their                                                               
     termination costs and to pay  the termination cost in a lump                                                               
     sum  or enter  into a  payment plan  within 60  days of  the                                                               
     termination date.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:20:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 15                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Employer Participation                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Allows the  plan  to  intercept  other  state  funds  for                                                               
        payment of delinquent contributions.                                                                                    
     ·  Codifies use  of  forfeitures  to  be applied  to  future                                                               
        employer contributions.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The PERS  or TRS  will be allowed  to intercept  other state                                                               
     funds  held  for an  employer  by  state agencies  or  other                                                               
     political subdivisions  when contributions  are not  paid as                                                               
     long  as  those  funds  are not  restricted  by  statute  or                                                               
     appropriated for a specific purpose.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Forfeitures occur  when a defined benefit  member terminates                                                               
     employment  and elects  to refund  their own  contributions.                                                               
     The employer  contributions made  on behalf of  the employee                                                               
     remain  in  the  employer's  assets  and  are  used  to  pay                                                               
     benefits for the members who remain in the plan.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:21:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 16                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Member Participation                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Repeals the ability to reinstate  service for Conditional                                                               
        or Public Service benefits as of July 1, 2010                                                                           
     ·  DB  members  who  hire  with  a  DCR  Plan-only  employer                                                               
        participate in the DCR Plan                                                                                             
     ·  Former DB members who  do not reinstate by  July 1, 2010,                                                               
        are DCR Plan members upon rehire                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   SB 141  removed the  member's ability  to reinstate  forfeited                                                               
   service effective July  1, 2010.  However, similar  changes to                                                               
   the reinstatement provisions for conditional service or public                                                               
   service benefits were omitted. This  bill conforms Conditional                                                               
   and Public Service  benefits in the  PERS/TRS DB plans  to the                                                               
   repeal of the reinstatement statutes.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   Clarifies that DB members who hire with a DCR only employer or                                                               
   former DB members  who did not  reinstate before July  1, 2010                                                               
   will participate  as  DCR  members. Without  these  amendments                                                               
   these members would not be able to participate in either plan.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:22:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 17                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Administrative                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 18                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     New Trust                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     · Alaska Retiree Health Trusts                                                                                             
        - ARMB Trustees                                                                                                         
        - Receive employer health contributions                                                                                 
        - Pay retiree medical premiums                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In order to separately  account for retiree medical benefits                                                               
     a new retiree health trust  separate from the pension trusts                                                               
     is created.  This trust will  be an IRC  irrevocable section                                                               
     115  trust with  the Alaska  Retirement Management  board as                                                               
     trustees  and  the  Commissioner of  Administration  or  the                                                               
     Commissioner's designee as the administrator.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:22:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 19                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Administrative                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     · Removes NEA as an eligible employer                                                                                      
     ·  Removes  Social   Security  tax   wage   base  cap   from                                                               
        employee/employer contributions                                                                                         
     · Conforms Administrator's duties across plans                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Although The National Education  Association was included in                                                               
     both the  PERS and  TRS as  an eligible  employer, NEA  is a                                                               
     private non-profit and  is not eligible to  participate in a                                                               
     government retirement plan. The  Division, the Department of                                                               
     Law and  NEA came to  an agreement  in the early  1990s that                                                               
     NEA would not enroll any  new employees into either the PERS                                                               
     or  the   TRS.  Members  participating  at   the  time  were                                                               
     grandfathered in.  Currently, NEA  has no active  members in                                                               
     either plan.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The Social  Security tax wage  base cap for 2007  is $97,500                                                               
     which means  no employee  or employer contributions  for the                                                               
     DCR plan  members can be  accepted for the remainder  of the                                                               
     year once  the wage cap  is reached.  The wage limit  is not                                                               
     required  for   qualification  of   the  plans.   This  bill                                                               
     eliminates the cap.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Conforms administrator's duties as  changed by SB 141 across                                                               
     PERS/TRS DB  and DC, Supplemental Benefits  System, Deferred                                                               
     Compensation Plan and the Health Reimbursement Arrangement.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:24:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 20                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Administrative                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Returns authority to  the Commissioner  of Administration                                                               
        to adopt regulations for the SBS, DCP and HRA plans.                                                                    
     ·  Provides OAH authority to  hear appeals for the  SBS, DCP                                                               
        and HRA plans.                                                                                                          
     ·  Provides OAH  authority  to  hear PERS/TRS  requests  for                                                               
        waivers of timeliness and adjustment.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The  last  set  of  administrative changes  are  to  correct                                                               
     omissions   or  drafting   errors   to   SB  141   regarding                                                               
     regulations and appeals.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Part of  the reform to  the retirement systems was  a change                                                               
     in   the  regulation   authority  from   the  prior   Public                                                               
     Employees'   Retirement  Board   (PERB)  and   the  Teachers                                                               
     Retirement Board.  The reference  to the  PERS Board  in the                                                               
     Supplemental  Benefits System  (SBS) statutes  pertaining to                                                               
     authority  for  adoption  of regulations  was  inadvertently                                                               
     changed  to the  ARMB along  with the  many other  reference                                                               
     changes. SBS  regulations, like PERS regulations,  relate to                                                               
     administrative  matters   and  should  be  adopted   by  the                                                               
     Commissioner.  This change  returns the  regulation adoption                                                               
     authority to the commissioner of administration.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     SB 141  changed the  appeal authority  from the  former PERS                                                               
     and TRS boards to the  Office of Administrative Hearings for                                                               
     PERS and  TRS but  inadvertently omitted transfer  of appeal                                                               
     authority for  SBS, DCP or  to provide for  appeal authority                                                               
     for  the  Health  Reimbursement Arrangement  (HRA).  Without                                                               
     this  change,  appeals  of decisions  of  the  administrator                                                               
     would have to go directly to superior court.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Members of  both the PERS  and TRS may appeal  an adjustment                                                               
     to benefits  to the Commissioner of  Administration. TRS DCR                                                               
     statutes allow  an appeal of the  commissioner's decision to                                                               
     the  Office of  Administrative Hearings  (OAH), however  the                                                               
     PERS  statutes do  not. This  section of  the bill  corrects                                                               
     that drafting error.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:25:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 21                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Technical Clarification Bill Overview                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     ·  Allows State  to  administer  benefits  intended  by  the                                                               
        legislature                                                                                                             
     · Provides funding mechanisms for all benefits                                                                             
     · Addresses IRC requirements                                                                                               
     · Removes administrative ambiguities                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea restated the targeted  objectives of SB 123 and concluded                                                               
the presentation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:26:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman sought further clarification  as to how the July                                                               
1, 2010 reinstatement  deadline date of July 1  2010 would affect                                                               
the  health care  benefits of  an individual  with previous  PERS                                                               
service in the DB Plan who rehired  on or after that date and, as                                                               
a result, is enrolled in the new DCR Plan.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman pointed  out that transitioning to  the DCR Plan                                                               
was  deemed  "the  major cost-saving  issue"  in  the  retirement                                                               
system reform effort.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  explained that  a  prior  service PERS  individual  who                                                               
rehired prior  to July  1, 2010 could  "vest and  become eligible                                                               
for  a  health benefit".  However,  that  individual would  "lose                                                               
their Tier and they lose that  health plan" if they rehired on or                                                               
after  that date.  They would  be enrolled  in the  DCR Plan  and                                                               
their  health benefits  would  be based  as  such. "Lower  health                                                               
costs for  that employee" would  be experienced since  the health                                                               
benefits  of  the DCR  Plan  were  "designed  as a  cost  savings                                                               
measure".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:28:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman identified  another of  the DCR  Plan's primary                                                               
cost savings measures as its  approach to health benefits for the                                                               
time between when a DCR  Plan employee separates from service and                                                               
they reach 65 years of age.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
In  response  to  a  question  from  Co-Chair  Stedman,  Ms.  Lea                                                               
elaborated  on this  matter. Under  the DB  Plan, a  Tier 1  PERS                                                               
member could be eligible for  system paid medical benefits at age                                                               
50. A PERS  Tier 111 member could be eligible  at age 60 provided                                                               
they had  ten years of  service. The  issue addressed in  the DCR                                                               
Plan  is that  the health  benefits paid  between retirement  and                                                               
when the member becomes Medicare  eligible incur the most expense                                                               
to the DB system.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  advised that the DCR  Plan requires that the  member "be                                                               
Medicare  eligible  before"  he  or she  could  qualify  for  the                                                               
medical benefits,  thereby "eliminating that high  cost period of                                                               
time" being experienced by the DB Plan.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman understood  the reinstatement  timeframe to  be                                                               
between July 1 2006 and July 1 2010.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea affirmed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:29:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton specified that a former  PERS Tier 1 or 11 employee                                                               
who  left  State  employment  and  cashed  out  their  retirement                                                               
account, would, after  being rehired, be required  to repay their                                                               
retirement account  in order to re-establish  their participation                                                               
in the DB Plan.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea affirmed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  inquired to the pay-back  responsibilities of such                                                               
an employee  who was rehired  in 2011; specifically  whether they                                                               
would be subject to the obligations of the DB or the DCR Plan.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea clarified that a former  PERS Tier 1 or II individual who                                                               
rehired after the July 1, 2010  date would not be required to pay                                                               
back anything as  their previous Tier status  would be forfeited.                                                               
They would "start fresh in the DCR Plan".                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  deduced therefore  that the previous  time accrued                                                               
by that individual  would not count toward  that person's vesting                                                               
in the DCR Plan.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea affirmed.  Since that person "did not  reinstate their DB                                                               
rights  before July  1, 2010,  they forfeit  their Tier  and they                                                               
forfeit the accumulated service".                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:31:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  asked for  further  information  about the  DCR                                                               
Plan's new Alaska Retiree Health Trust (ARHT).                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  explained that  ARHT would be  established as  a Section                                                               
115 health trust, and as  such would allow "pre-tax contributions                                                               
and benefits for the medical  plans" similar to what is currently                                                               
available  to   employees.  It  would  also   provide  additional                                                               
flexibility beyond  what is currently  available to  employers in                                                               
other  types  of  qualified  plans.  In  light  of  some  of  the                                                               
accounting challenges experienced in  the past year, the Division                                                               
"felt it  prudent to  establish a  health trust  account separate                                                               
from the pension trusts".                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:32:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins asked  whether  provisions  regarding Roth  IRAs                                                               
rollovers would also apply to regular IRAs.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  affirmed.  The provision  would  expand  PERS  members'                                                               
options by  allowing them to establish  a Roth IRA after  July 1,                                                               
2008.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins   inquired  to  NEAs'  position   regarding  its                                                               
employees being excluded from either PERS or TRS.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea responded that NEA  accepts "the distinction" of being an                                                               
ineligible employer. An agreement  on this matter was established                                                               
in the 1990s.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:33:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins asked  for  further  information regarding  PERS                                                               
employees who had  opted out of the federal  social security (SS)                                                               
tax system.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  communicated that  all  State  employees and  14  other                                                               
political  subdivisions   had  opted   out  of  SS   and  instead                                                               
participate in the State's  supplemental annuity benefits annuity                                                               
program,  referred  to  as  SBS.   Other  PERS  employers  either                                                               
participate  in  SS or  utilize  PERS  as their  social  security                                                               
substitute.  She  also  noted  that  no  teachers  in  the  State                                                               
participate in SS at this time.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:34:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  asked  whether  employees  have  expressed  any                                                               
concerns regarding their non-SS status.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea communicated that no concerns have been reported.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:34:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton referred to  the "Member Participation" information                                                               
on page  9 and hypothesized about  a future situation in  which a                                                               
PERS employer,  specifically a small community,  with the minimum                                                               
required  PERS  normal cost  rate  obligation  of 14.48  percent,                                                               
decides  to terminate  from PERS.  The question  is whether  that                                                               
employer,  after terminating  from the  PERS system  could rejoin                                                               
it, and thereby "force" their  employees into either the DCR plan                                                               
or into  a situation in which  the employee would be  required to                                                               
make a decision regarding their retirement plan.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:36:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  advised that  such a scenario  could occur.  An employer                                                               
terminating their participation in PERS  would be required to pay                                                               
"termination costs  and close out  their account before  they can                                                               
rejoin. If they rejoin they are  a DCR member", as would be their                                                               
employees, even  those who were  DB members. She  clarified that,                                                               
at  the time  of the  employer termination  from PERS,  its "non-                                                               
vested Defined Benefit members" would  have "the option to become                                                               
vested in the Defined Benefit plan".                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  asked that  the focus of  the discussion  be to                                                               
health insurance cost issues.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  qualified that  a Tier  1 or 11  DB member  "who becomes                                                               
vested at the  time the employer terminates…  would become vested                                                               
in the …  DB health plan at  that time". A Tier  111 member would                                                               
be  required  "to have  ten  years  of  service  in order  to  be                                                               
eligible  for the  Defined  Benefit medical  plan".  Some of  the                                                               
vested DB  employees "would earn  a medical entitlement  from the                                                               
DCR  Plan  as well  as  the  Defined  Benefit plan",  were  their                                                               
employer to participate as a DCR Plan member.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:38:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  asked the  termination  costs  a small  community                                                               
employer with only three employees might experience.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:38:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  explained that the  termination costs for  each employer                                                               
would differ depending on such  things as "the number of retirees                                                               
they have,  the number of  active members  they have, the  age of                                                               
those  members, the  amount of  service they  have". Sample  cost                                                               
scenarios would be developed.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:39:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  assumed  there would  be  costs  associated  with                                                               
terminating participation, however, wondered  if there might be a                                                               
situation  in  which  a  terminating  employer  might  receive  a                                                               
payment from the State.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea was not sure, but would investigate.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:39:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman identified the  State, the University of Alaska,                                                               
and municipalities and  cities as being PERS  system employers. A                                                               
few "very small" participating communities  have a surplus rather                                                               
than a deficit  in the system. While this might  be an issue, one                                                               
must recognize  that the benefit obligation  to employees extends                                                               
into  "perpetuity". In  contrast  to  large private  corporations                                                               
with   "very  rich"   pension  plans,   the  State   "is  running                                                               
substantial deficits".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman pointed out that  a community could elect to opt                                                               
out  of the  PERS system  and start  their own  DB Plan.  While a                                                               
community could rejoin the PERS system  as a DCR member, the bill                                                               
would  likely  contain  provisions  "blocking"  that  community's                                                               
employees'  former TIER  status  from being  recognized, as  that                                                               
would not be "fair play".                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  agreed. The bill  should contain  language clearly                                                               
prohibiting such action.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:41:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  asked  which   employers  have  provided  their                                                               
employees the  option to transition from  the DB Plan to  the DCR                                                               
Plan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea  responded that the  State and the Bering  Straits School                                                               
District have provided this option  to their employees. One other                                                               
entity was considering doing so.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:42:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins  asked whether employees  of other  entities have                                                               
complained about not being provided this option.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea replied  that the Division has not  received any employee                                                               
complaints in this regard.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins asked whether a  State employee, for example, who                                                               
opted  to  change to  the  DCR  Plan,  would  be subject  to  any                                                               
associated expenses.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea responded  in the negative. Were an employee  to elect to                                                               
transition  to  the  DCR  Plan, the  balance  of  their  employee                                                               
contribution account in  the DB Plan would be rolled  over to the                                                               
DCR Plan.  Their employer  would provide a  100 percent  match to                                                               
that balance. An employee electing  to transition to the DCR Plan                                                               
would forfeit all their rights to the DB Plan.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  sought  for  further  discussion  on  the  100                                                               
percent  employer  match;  specifically the  issue  of  accessing                                                               
retirement system trust funds.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:43:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  qualified  that  the employer  match  to  the  employee                                                               
account balance must be "new  money"; utilizing assets previously                                                               
contributed  to the  DB Plan  by the  employer on  behalf of  the                                                               
employee was  prohibited as those contributions  were required to                                                               
remain  in  the DB  account.  A  12-month  deadline by  which  an                                                               
employee  must decide  whether or  not to  transition to  the DCR                                                               
Plan was  included in  the bill  in an  effort to  help employers                                                               
with budgeting and estimating for that new cost.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked which employees were eligible to convert.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea informed  the Committee that any  non-vested employee was                                                               
eligible: "they have  up until either they vest or  one year from                                                               
the date the option is allowed by their employer to convert."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman identified  "the  targeted group  here as  Tier                                                               
111".                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea concurred,  but advised there were  still some non-vested                                                               
Tier 11 employees.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:45:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  hypothesized a  situation  in  which the  City  &                                                               
Borough of Juneau,  for example, terminated its status  as a PERS                                                               
employer, and  later made the  decision to rejoin the  system and                                                               
thereby convert its  employees to the DCR Plan.  The question was                                                               
"how do you  assess how much Juneau owes given  the fact we don't                                                               
identify  by  PERS  employer what  their  individual  liabilities                                                               
are."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:45:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  deferred to  Charlene  Morrison,  the Division's  Chief                                                               
Financial Officer.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:46:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Kreitzer  interjected  to  remind  Members  of  the                                                               
accounting issues  that were discussed  by Ms. Morrison  during a                                                               
separate   hearing  on   SB   125-PERS  CONTRIBUTIONS;   UNFUNDED                                                               
LIABILITY on  March 19, 2007. That  discussion included specifics                                                               
regarding how the liability would be assessed.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:46:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHARLENE   MORRISON,  Chief   Financial   Officer,  Division   of                                                               
Retirement & Benefits, Department  of Administration reviewed the                                                               
process  accompanying an  employer's decision  to terminate  from                                                               
the PERS system. After receiving  written correspondence from the                                                               
employer  affirming their  decision  to  terminate, the  Division                                                               
would  mail all  that  employer's non-vested  employees a  letter                                                               
detailing   their  option   to  either   vest  or   refund.  This                                                               
information is necessary in order  for the actuary to calculate a                                                               
termination liability for  that employer. In this  case, a person                                                               
with only "one  year of service could choose to  vest and if they                                                               
are a Tier  1 individual, they actually vest in  the health care,                                                               
which is a very expensive benefit, as well as in their pension".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Morrison continued  that after  the  actuary determined  the                                                               
termination  liability,  that  information  is  compared  to  the                                                               
assets  the   terminating  employer   has  in  the   system.  The                                                               
difference  between  the  two  is the  termination  cost  to  the                                                               
employer.  She allowed  that some  accounting concerns  have been                                                               
raised in  regards to  the assets. This  issue should  be further                                                               
reviewed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:48:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  acknowledged Senator Elton's concern  about the                                                               
possibility of  an entity "gaming"  or "manipulating"  the system                                                               
by terminating  a plan and forcing  its employees to go  into the                                                               
new DCR Plan. An effort to prevent this is paramount.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman pointed  out that in addition to  this bill, the                                                               
Legislature  is considering  separate  legislation  about how  to                                                               
address  the  immense   retirement  systems'  unfunded  liability                                                               
facing municipalities.  The Legislative  effort to  date includes                                                               
"some kind of a sharing  mechanism" through which the State could                                                               
"help municipalities pay that liability".                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  continued. Were  a community  such as  the City                                                               
and Borough of  Sitka, which has a retirement  system deficit, to                                                               
terminate their  PERS participation,  they would be  required "to                                                               
deal with that  unfunded liability with no help  from the State".                                                               
This would  be a "financial obstacle".  Practically any community                                                               
in the  State which  chose to  terminate from  the plan  would be                                                               
obligated to pay "tens of millions of dollars".                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:50:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman appreciated Senator  Elton's concern and assured                                                               
him that  the process pertaining  to employers opting out  of and                                                               
then back into the system would be further reviewed.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton acknowledged.  "The sticking  point" might  be the                                                               
inability "to allocate liabilities  by PERS employer". This could                                                               
result  in   there  being  different  opinions   "over  what  the                                                               
terminating PERS  employer liability  actually may be.  The State                                                               
might have a difficult time countering those arguments."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:51:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas  asked for further  information about  the removal                                                               
"of the social security tax  wage base cap from employer/employee                                                               
contributions" as depicted on page 19.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Morrison  explained that in the  "definition of compensation"                                                               
contained in SB 141, it  was indicated "that the compensation for                                                               
members in  this plan is  subject to just  their wages up  to the                                                               
social security wage  base". Language in this  bill would "remove                                                               
that limitation so that contributions  can be made into this plan                                                               
by both  the employer and the  employee on all of  the wages made                                                               
by that employee  and not limit them by the  social security wage                                                               
base".  This  would  allow  more contributions  to  go  into  the                                                               
employee's account.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  appreciated Senator Thomas' question  as he had                                                               
also wondered about that provision.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins asked whether the  Department was concerned about                                                               
the prospect of employers terminating from the plan.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Kreitzer did  not feel  qualified to  speak to  the                                                               
question as she had only been  with the Department a short while.                                                               
She deferred to Ms. Morrison.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Morrison believed  it important  that an  employer have  the                                                               
right  to terminate  if  they so  choose.  However, any  employer                                                               
choosing  to terminate  from  the plan  should  devise their  own                                                               
benefit plan.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins  clarified  his   question  to  be  whether  the                                                               
Department  had any  concerns regarding  the number  of employers                                                               
who might choose to terminate from the plan.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Morrison expressed that terminating  from the PERS plan might                                                               
not   be   a   financial  obstacle   for   shorter-term   smaller                                                               
participants; however,  it might  prove too  much of  a financial                                                               
hardship for  long-term PERS employers.  She could not  commit to                                                               
being concerned "one way or the other".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins  asked whether there  was concern that  the level                                                               
of the employers' unfunded liability  exceeded the ability of the                                                               
State to fix.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Kreitzer  responded that the State  must continue to                                                               
move forward. It had the  benefit of the historical experience of                                                               
the system, as  well as people, such as her,  who were willing to                                                               
address the issue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:54:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  directed attention to  DB Plan employees  who have                                                               
left State  service and  cashed out their  SBS account.  He asked                                                               
whether that person would be  required to repay their SBS account                                                               
were they rehired into the DCR Plan.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Morrison  advised that a  DB Plan member, who  withdrew their                                                               
SBS but  not their  DB Plan contributions,  would continue  to be                                                               
classified  as a  DB  Plan member.  Their  employment would  only                                                               
change to the  DCR Plan status were they to  have withdrawn their                                                               
defined  benefit   contributions  and  "not   reinstate[d]  their                                                               
employment with a covered employer by July 1, 2010".                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton asked  whether the  option to  cash out  their SBS                                                               
account would be available to a DB member after 2010.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Morrison communicated that only  the option to buy back one's                                                               
defined  benefit service  would terminate  by July  1, 2010;  the                                                               
option to withdraw one's SBS would not change.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:56:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked to the plan's  obligation in the case of a                                                               
domestic  order pertaining  to the  separation of  a husband  and                                                               
wife, one of which might be  either "an employee or a beneficiary                                                               
of the plan".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Morrison deferred to Ms. Lea.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea explained that in  a qualified domestic order, the member                                                               
is not required to terminate.  Essentially, the order would serve                                                               
to assign  a portion of  the employee's accounts, "whether  it be                                                               
the  SBS account,  a  defined  benefit account,  or  the new  DCR                                                               
account,  to  their  former  spouse".  Since  SBS  and  DCR  Plan                                                               
accounts are  individual monetary  accounts, "a  separate account                                                               
would  be  created   for  the  former  spouse"   and  the  monies                                                               
determined  to be  the property  of  the former  spouse would  be                                                               
moved into that account.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea continued  that a  domestic  order that  splits the  DBR                                                               
contribution account  is uncommon.  The experience has  been that                                                               
the order "splits  the retirement benefit and  any future medical                                                               
benefits  depending on  whether the  divorce is  before or  after                                                               
retirement".                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:58:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas  revisited the issue  of the social  security cap,                                                               
by asking  whether allowing the  contribution to  increase beyond                                                               
the  social security  contribution salary  limit "might  create a                                                               
further disparity between the participating employers".                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea expressed  the belief that eliminating the  limit did not                                                               
create  "any disparity.  The provision  basically applied  to the                                                               
SBS annuity program which is  the State's replacement program for                                                               
social security and  that's why the social security  wage cap was                                                               
included in  that language. It  should not have been  included in                                                               
the DCR Plan because there was no need for it".                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:00:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further discussion, Co-Chair  Stedman ordered the                                                               
bill HELD in Committee.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:00:21 AM / 10:00:35 AM                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  reviewed  the  Committee's  schedule  for  the                                                               
remainder of the week.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Bert Stedman adjourned the meeting at 10:01:25 AM                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects